Storm - The Demigod

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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by The Weather God on Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:22 pm

jrnewto wrote:Anyone have any theories for who Claremont intended Storm’s “Merciful Bright Lady/ Goddess” to be?

Likely Gaea. Storm's goddess was always referred to as mother nature or spirit of the earth.
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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by jrnewto on Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:24 pm

I think Claremont had something else in mind, since his iteration of the Elder Gods was quite different than the ones Marvel introduced later with Gaea, Set and Chthon.

He originally intended them as the N'Garai.

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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by The Weather God on Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:47 pm

jrnewto wrote:I think Claremont had something else in mind, since his iteration of the Elder Gods was quite different than the ones Marvel introduced later with Gaea, Set and Chthon.

He originally intended them as the N'Garai.

Even if he had different ideas for the Elder Gods in his writings, his original concept appeared to be of an Earth Goddess for Storm. He has even established that Storm does not appear to know who her goddess is, just that she's the spirit of the planet and mother nature. While other writers have established different goddesses throughout the years, the only possible goddesses she could have is Gaea and Oshtur. One that links her together by her bloodline and the other by her mutant abilities.

Also, Claremont may have established the Elder Gods in a different form, but it has also been established that the Elder Gods have taken on many different names and forms throughout their years. It could simply be that Storm wouldn't know Gaea by that name. He may have had this concept in mind as well before it was established.

If Claremont did have another idea in mind I would assume that Storm would discover that she herself was the goddess. He has stated before that his idea of her was of a three dimensional goddess. The fact that he established Storm having visions of herself being a goddess for a land and having power past down from her bloodline since the dawn of humanity further indicates that this was likely his original idea.
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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by jrnewto on Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:56 pm

I get where you're coming from but given how often Storm has interacted with Dr. Strange, Gaea's sorcerer supreme, it's odd that it never came up in discussion and some point and her curiousities got resolved.

Yes, I think the avatar idea works well with Ashake, etc. and suspect inklings of what he had in mind reside in H. Rider Haggard's "She adventure".

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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by The Weather God on Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:18 pm

It could just be that Claremont didn't want to establish a goddess for her yet. Having a goddess around to come to the rescue can be pretty damaging to the story. There is barely one established now. We both know he can be a little slow when it comes to revealing Storm's rich history. I understand what you mean though and I agree.
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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by jrnewto on Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:39 pm

It would be great to come up with a fix for what Claremont intended with regard to Storm's full ancestry, including the gem she inherited that was part of the Madripoor Set (and its true purpose).

What was up with the Matrix/ Cavourite Crystal inadvertently freeing the Shadow King when it was initially stolen by Team America from A.I.M.s Black Mesa facility, yet when they handed it directly to Charles it likewise re-established his psionic link with the New Mutants?

With the Shadow King connection, it is interesting that upon retrieving the Cavourite Crystal from the Super-Skrull in Marvel Team-Up 62, Ms. Marvel begins to feel “hungry” as a result of holding it in her hand.

Given it later freed the Shadow King’s, was it his essence causing Carol’s described “hunger”?

The facets of the crystal further reveal to Carol a different aspect of her personality, kind of like what the Siege Perilous did for Dazzler in UXM 246.

So was Claremont intending to alternatively suggest that after the death of his host body, Amahl Farouk, in UXM 117, the Shadow King’s essence was projected into a host in an alternate dimension (i.e. Crusader X story in Excalibur)?

It was also shown from the above Marvel Team-Up issue and Ms. Marvel 8 to be able to open up warp-space doorways, but to where was never revealed!? Given it freed the Shadow King, did it open a doorway from the Astral Plane where he was last seen?

Grotesk intended to use it to destroy the Earth while the Super Skrull claimed with it he could rule the stars. How and to what ends?

With its ability to open interdimensional gateways, was it perhaps part of the Madripoor Set?

How was it able to free the Shadow King from the astral plane to possess Karma, though?

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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by RLAAMJR. on Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:16 am

SINNER is in comicbookresources by the way. He's usually at the games forum, talking about MVC3/UMVC3 but he post to Storm Appreciation Thread sometimes.
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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by jrnewto on Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:37 am

When Sauron hypnotises the X-Men in Marvel Fanfare #3, Nightcrawler sees himself as a demon, Colossus some type of insect, but most interesting is that Storm sees herself as a cat-like creature. Given her feline eyes, how do you think Claremont was going to tie this into her ancestry? He obviously intended this to go somewhere since he had her able to see exceptionally well in the dark, and cat’s see exceptionally well the dark too, correct?

Where was this leading? A rain goddess who also possessed cat-like abilities?

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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by THUNDERBOLT30 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:10 am

jrnewto wrote:When Sauron hypnotises the X-Men in Marvel Fanfare #3, Nightcrawler sees himself as a demon, Colossus some type of insect, but most interesting is that Storm sees herself as a cat-like creature. Given her feline eyes, how do you think Claremont was going to tie this into her ancestry? He obviously intended this to go somewhere since he had her able to see exceptionally well in the dark, and cat’s see exceptionally well the dark too, correct?

Where was this leading? A rain goddess who also possessed cat-like abilities?

This makes great sense. Storm was initially going to be a mutant cat before she became Storm, and Claremont not only gave her exceptional night vision, not just shown when her body was switched with Emma's, but was also shown when she and the X-Men went to Japan for the first time help Sunfire against Moses Magnum, Storm could see through the thick, dark and heavy smoke of a massive blazing inferno. In addition, she also stated that her hearing was nearly on par with Wolverine's, being able to deduced Cyclop's voice when he was attacked by Jean at the Hellfire Club. I think Claremont definitely wanted to keep with Storm having some exceptional physical abilities that were catlike in nature.

We also got the X-treme X-Men story arc where Brainchild devolved Storm back 1000 in her genetic make-up. She was a primal slayer with very feline-esque features (from her eyes to claws to fangs).

Storm's family bloodline and genetic make-up give her some impressive developmental potential.
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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by THUNDERBOLT30 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:12 am

The Weather God wrote:
jrnewto wrote:Thanks for clarifying that since I'm primarily working off Claremont.

So yes, given the psychic laugh, it would seem Ororo was compelled to pickpocket Xavier at Farouk's behest:)

In addition, if she was working for Farouk after Claremont had already established her being under El Gibár's wing, this would seem to further suggest Achmed was using the street urchins at Farouk's behest. But to what goal?

I write a blog where I've "fixed" a number of abandoned Claremont plots and would love to collaborate on a Storm/ Gambit one if you're keen?

jrnewto wrote:Though there is the possibility of El Gibár protecting Ororo from the Shadow King, which would suggest he was a mutant (which would explain his being the most talented thief in Cairo).

This then draws an interesting contrast to when Storm is de-aged and is again a street urchin, this time in Cairo, Illinois, she finds herself once again protected from the Shadow King by a master thief, this time Gambit.

Coincidence?

I just read over UXM 102, it would appear Claremont established that Achmed's urchins discovered Ororo and not some local urchins. So there is something definitely indicating that Achmed's urchins were either under his protection or Farouk was upper management when it came to who ruled the thieves quarter. Farouk may have been allowed to use them whenever he pleased while Achmed trained them as a teacher and was their leader.

I really need to work on getting the Image Shacks downloaded to my pc so I scan start adding scans to the site. I have some good ones on Storm's enhanced vision and hearing.
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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by jrnewto on Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:18 am

That would be awesome.

To which X-Treme X-Men story arc are you referring? The Savage Land mini?

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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by THUNDERBOLT30 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:39 pm

jrnewto wrote:That would be awesome.

To which X-Treme X-Men story arc are you referring? The Savage Land mini?

Yes.

If Marvel ever decided to give Storm a secondary mutation (not that she needs it as powerful as she is) I wouldn't mind seeing her gain some enhanced cat-like physicality (-i.e. - strength, speed, enhanced, agility, reflexes, sight, hearing, smell and an even more enhanced connection to the planet, etc.). She is alreayd pretty formidable in h2h but with enhanced physicality her durability could fare better in combat.
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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by jrnewto on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:38 am

The Weather God wrote:Interesting question. It has been a long time since I have read classic Storm issues, but I don't recall Storm working for Shadow King when she was a kid. I believe that was apart of animated Storm history (i.e. - TAS and WATX Storm only). In comics, her battles wit hthe Shadow King started when she joined the X-Men.

But I like your train of thought here. It would be a very interesting twist if it was revealed that Shadow King had a role in N'Dare's and David's death.

I believe it was established in UXM #117 that Storm was in fact working for The Shadow King/Farouk at the time. In fact, he was assisting her at the time when she robbed Xavier and went on to state that he was running the "Thieves' Quarter".

We had a long discussion over at CBR about the screwed up time frames in Storm's past. We came to an agreement that Storm worked for Farouk first since it was established in X-men Unlimited #7 that Storm had to work with local street thieves before she was finally accepted into the high ranks by Achmed, and then later with "The Teacher of Thieves'" when she was in her preteens.

Great breakdown, Jrnewto and welcome to Storm-Goddess! Very Happy

Achmed was a very mysterious man who seemed to know alot more than he should have. My guess is he had some sort of deal made with Farouk over the thievery turfs in Cairo. I believe he has some hidden history with The Shadow King and Candra. His Thieves group was also probably equal in ranking to Farouk's until he was destroyed by Xavier.

Achmed must have taken over it all once he was taken out of the picture. I think he saw hidden power within Ororo, and given how accustom he was to the unknown, it is very possible that he was aware of Ororo's bloodline and the potential power within her as the other people were in the Serengeti Plains.

He knew all about Storm being a goddess and an X-men. So it is not so much of a stretch that he knew about it.

[/quote]
I think I have some further clues about Achmed-El-Gibar and Ororo.

In Uncanny X-Men #255, when Ororo is fleeing the Shadow King down the basement of Cairo Memorial Hospital, she says “Achmed said he could no longer protect me. He locked me in his room, told me if I could not find my own way free, I deserved my fate. I remember how sad he looked… how easy it was to escape. There was darkness [at which time her mutant powers obviously manifested allowing her to escape his clutches and she kept running]

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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by RLAAMJR. on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:14 am

For me, Storm is possible a great, great grand daughter of a god and a human, does making her a demigod.
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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by jrnewto on Sun May 06, 2012 6:38 am

THUNDERBOLT30 wrote:This makes great sense. Storm was initially going to be a mutant cat before she became Storm, and Claremont not only gave her exceptional night vision, not just shown when her body was switched with Emma's, but was also shown when she and the X-Men went to Japan for the first time help Sunfire against Moses Magnum, Storm could see through the thick, dark and heavy smoke of a massive blazing inferno. In addition, she also stated that her hearing was nearly on par with Wolverine's, being able to deduced Cyclop's voice when he was attacked by Jean at the Hellfire Club. I think Claremont definitely wanted to keep with Storm having some exceptional physical abilities that were catlike in nature.

We also got the X-treme X-Men story arc where Brainchild devolved Storm back 1000 in her genetic make-up. She was a primal slayer with very feline-esque features (from her eyes to claws to fangs).

Storm's family bloodline and genetic make-up give her some impressive developmental potential.
Given the additional cat conception for Ororo, I wonder if the "Goddess/ Merciful Bright Lady" Chris Claremont intended to link Ororo to was Tefnut, the rain goddess with the head of a cat?

That is, while there are many Rain Goddesses worshipped across the continent, Tefnut is the only one I recall with the head of a cat!

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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by The Weather God on Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:06 pm

jrnewto wrote:
I think I have some further clues about Achmed-El-Gibar and Ororo.

In Uncanny X-Men #255, when Ororo is fleeing the Shadow King down the basement of Cairo Memorial Hospital, she says “Achmed said he could no longer protect me. He locked me in his room, told me if I could not find my own way free, I deserved my fate. I remember how sad he looked… how easy it was to escape. There was darkness [at which time her mutant powers obviously manifested allowing her to escape his clutches and she kept running]

I think this settles everything that happened between Storm meeting Alcmed and Farooq.

Achmed found her first but he eventually was forced to give her up to The Shadow King. Farooq tried to have her rob Xavier and ended up fighting each other before Xavier was able to defeat him. Freeing her from Xavier's hold. Storm must of then went back to Alchmed before she left on her journey to Kenya.

Thank you very much, jrnewto, for patching in the lost stories that many fans of the X-men and Storm specifically have wondered for years.
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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by jrnewto on Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:54 pm

The Weather God wrote:I think this settles everything that happened between Storm meeting Alcmed and Farooq.

Achmed found her first but he eventually was forced to give her up to The Shadow King. Farooq tried to have her rob Xavier and ended up fighting each other before Xavier was able to defeat him. Freeing her from Xavier's hold. Storm must of then went back to Alchmed before she left on her journey to Kenya.

Thank you very much, jrnewto, for patching in the lost stories that many fans of the X-men and Storm specifically have wondered for years.

The only issue that still needs resolving is why the Shadow King, if wanting to increase major strife around the world between humans and mutants, etc., would limit his manipulations to taking control of Cairo's Thieves Quarter (i.e. small-time crime such as theft involving beggar children)? It just doesn't compare to his later schemes. Why limit his schemes to running a pickpocketing ring? What did he hope to gain? Was it only to gain control of Ororo or were his plans more extensive than attempting to gain control over one mutant child/ girl?

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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by The Weather God on Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:48 pm

I agree, that is quite strange, there has to be more to the story. I don't really see why he would feel the need to do that unless he had some sort of intel that he gained about Storm. Her uncle was willing to kill all sorts of people all around Africa in order to find her. It may just be that she's that much special to them.
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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by jrnewto on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:25 am

RLAAMJR. wrote:For me, Storm is possible a great, great grand daughter of a god and a human, does making her a demigod.
The explanation for Storm’s magic ancestry has been RIGHT THERE… and yet none of us saw it, but how in the hell could we have MISSED it?

1. Faltine are entities composed of pure magic energy.

2. Certain ones of them were able to take on human forms, Dormammu and Umar for example.

3. When a Faltine and a mortal procreate, the product of this union results in the child having WHITE HAIR and BLUE EYES, with exceptional magic potential (Clea being the most recent example).

Now we all know Storm's ancestry is priestesses and sorceresses, and they were exceptional magic users, and all those with such power had the tapetumus eyes and white hair.

So has the secret to Storm’s magic ancestry, including her tapetumus eyes and white hair, all along been pointing to their being an inherited trait from a Faltine ancestor?

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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by THUNDERBOLT30 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:26 pm

jrnewto wrote:
RLAAMJR. wrote:For me, Storm is possible a great, great grand daughter of a god and a human, does making her a demigod.
The explanation for Storm’s magic ancestry has been RIGHT THERE… and yet none of us saw it, but how in the hell could we have MISSED it?

1. Faltine are entities composed of pure magic energy.

2. Certain ones of them were able to take on human forms, Dormammu and Umar for example.

3. When a Faltine and a mortal procreate, the product of this union results in the child having WHITE HAIR and BLUE EYES, with exceptional magic potential (Clea being the most recent example).

Now we all know Storm's ancestry is priestesses and sorceresses, and they were exceptional magic users, and all those with such power had the tapetumus eyes and white hair.

So has the secret to Storm’s magic ancestry, including her tapetumus eyes and white hair, all along been pointing to their being an inherited trait from a Faltine ancestor?

That would be AMAZING if that is the case. The origin of her mystical heritage has been so vague, but I rember having a discussion like this on Comicvine a few years back about a possible connection to the Faltine. Is there a connection between the Faltine and Oshtur, seeing as how she favors Storm's bloodline? And Storm's bloodline has alos been noted to include the genetic potential for a Primal Slayer, like we saw in the X-treme X-Men Savage Land story arc some years back. As a Primal Slayer she had amped physicality and I wonder if there is a connection to present day Ororo's physcial prowess, since it has been stated that Storm's balance, reflexes and coordination are far above a normal human's level, and that she has exceptional night vision and hearing. Defnitely some interesting aspects about Storm's genetics outside of her x-gene mutation.
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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by jrnewto on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:31 pm

THUNDERBOLT30 wrote:That would be AMAZING if that is the case. The origin of her mystical heritage has been so vague, but I rember having a discussion like this on Comicvine a few years back about a possible connection to the Faltine. Is there a connection between the Faltine and Oshtur, seeing as how she favors Storm's bloodline?

If we work from Claremont's original trail, Oshtur isn't necessarily involved.

Perhaps it links with the Bright Merciful Lady, though there's a case to be made that that was Ororo herself at a later period in her timeline. Who knows.

THUNDERBOLT30 wrote:And Storm's bloodline has alos been noted to include the genetic potential for a Primal Slayer, like we saw in the X-treme X-Men Savage Land story arc some years back. As a Primal Slayer she had amped physicality and I wonder if there is a connection to present day Ororo's physcial prowess, since it has been stated that Storm's balance, reflexes and coordination are far above a normal human's level, and that she has exceptional night vision and hearing. Defnitely some interesting aspects about Storm's genetics outside of her x-gene mutation.

If she is Faltine this would seem to suggest she inherited her mutant powers from her father, David Monroe and that her mother, N'Dare, passed on the Faltine genes.

The only issue to then overcome is Ororo's weight, etc. and lack of superstrength which was a noted trait of Clea's faltine genetics!?

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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by The Weather God on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:53 am

jrnewto wrote:
THUNDERBOLT30 wrote:And Storm's bloodline has alos been noted to include the genetic potential for a Primal Slayer, like we saw in the X-treme X-Men Savage Land story arc some years back. As a Primal Slayer she had amped physicality and I wonder if there is a connection to present day Ororo's physcial prowess, since it has been stated that Storm's balance, reflexes and coordination are far above a normal human's level, and that she has exceptional night vision and hearing. Defnitely some interesting aspects about Storm's genetics outside of her x-gene mutation.

If she is Faltine this would seem to suggest she inherited her mutant powers from her father, David Monroe and that her mother, N'Dare, passed on the Faltine genes.

The only issue to then overcome is Ororo's weight, etc. and lack of superstrength which was a noted trait of Clea's faltine genetics!?

Well we know it's in her generic potential if we consider the Savage Land arc, when she was devolved. It could just be that she's somehow inhibiting herself or hasn't reached the potential to do it yet.
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Re: Storm - The Demigod

Post by vladko92 on Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:34 am

SINNER wrote:As we all know, Storm has a unique connection with the Elder Goddess Oshtur. What we don't know, is what the benefits of this connection can be.

Since ancient times, the women of Ororo's bloodline have been gifted with distinctive features of white hair and blue eyes, as well as great potential for sorcery, and it is known that Oshtur is the one behind this.

What could this mean for Storm? Could Oshtur be some sort of divine guardian? Could Oshtur be invoked by Storm herself in times of need? Much like the Phoenix Force with Jean Grey, could Oshtur be a source for higher power or deification?

These are all questions I'd like to see answered and explored.

Personally, I would love to have Oshtur become Storm's official guardian and mentor. I would not want Oshtur to be a frequently recurring character in Storm stories, but every once in a while, I'd like Storm to reach out to this higher power that only she and a few others in the Marvel Universe have a link to.

I would not want Storm to evolve into an actual goddess or magical force as Jean Grey has, but I would love Oshtur to grant Storm access to her powers in times of great distress and urgent need, much like with Thor and his "Warrior's Madness" ability. And Storm's ancestral ruby should be the key Storm uses to summon the Lady of the Skies, although it should not be impossible to do so without it.

I would not want Storm to become a full-blown sorceress. I want her to remain a mutant with atmokinetic powers, but there is much story and character development that could derive from this unusual and interesting connection.

What do you fans think about this? And if Storm's connection with Oshtur was further explored, what kind of stories or character development would you want it to lead to?

It's quite interesting view. I personally would love to see something like that happening, and for Storm to get finally approved from the Marvel Creators that is an Omega Level Mutant... I don't even know why they keep her still 'potential' Omega Level Mutant, when she have shown and proven that she is Omega Level Mutant more then once...
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